Lonni Chit Chats with Lindsey Tod about WOC (women of color) in leadership, retaining women of color in the workplace, and most importantly how we practice self-care as WOC. Connect with Lindsey People Tod on LinkedIn.
Lonni Chit Chats with Lindsey Tod about WOC (women of color) in leadership, retaining women of color in the workplace, and most importantly how we practice self-care as WOC.
Connect with Lindsey People Tod on LinkedIn.
______________________________________
Do you have something to ask or share with Lonni?
Submit all questions and stories to Chit Chat with Lonni.
Lonni will be answering questions that are submitted during different podcast episodes.
_____________________________________
Chit Chats with Lonni is mixed and produced by Ann-Catherine Desulme .
Music by Houston Artist $hun.
Connect with Lonni on Instagram:
Jalonni Weaver:
Hey y'all, you're listening to Chit Chats with Lonni, a podcast that was created to unpack some shit while also amplifying black and brown voices. I'm your host Jalonni Weaver and I hope you're ready to chit chat.
Jalonni Weaver:
Hey y'all, it's me Lonni. Today I have a special guest, Lindsay. She is one of my connections on LinkedIn and we've known each other, but this is our first time legit talking. And so today me and her are going to chit chat about women of color in leadership positions and we're going to unpack that. And so I'm so excited to have her on and I could introduce her, but I feel like it's better if I let her introduce herself. And so Lindsay, I'll let you have the floor. And do you prefer, what are your pronouns? I know a lot of people are like-
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah, I appreciate that. You're on it. Well, so good to be here, Lonni. It is a true pleasure. My pronouns are she/her. Just excited to be here. Like Lonni said, we've connected a couple times on LinkedIn and this is really our first time to get to chit chat. So excited to dig into what leadership looks like and in this world that we live in that's so digital and so just upended in the past couple years and what it looks like to be a woman of color in all of that and just really excited.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yes, for sure. And I'm excited too. And I feel like this is a topic nowadays because now I think that since the pandemic happened, everybody is more so trying to get their diversity efforts up and actually trying to have that diverse leadership, diversity in the executive board, bringing people up with promotions and so I think that this is a great topic nowadays for just to bring awareness to what is a leader and what does that mean? So what do you consider a leader? Do you consider yourself a leader and what is your leading style I guess?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah, it's a great question. I think oftentimes when I think of business leader, for example, the first images that flash in my mind are like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Which is just the classic, like, yeah, I have company and it's worth billions of dollars and I lead people. But when I really think about who has led me in my life, I think about some of my past managers for sure. I think about some of the different executives that have either been at companies that I've been at or who have kind of taken me under their wing a little bit. I think of my mom. Even as we start to think about that word leadership that we look at our individual lives. What about you? What comes to mind when you think of leadership?
Jalonni Weaver:
Oh, I think about somebody that I can look up to, somebody that I can trust, somebody that I know is going to back me regardless. And right now I report to an amazing leader and I never thought I would actually have the connection that I have with my leader. I don't consider them a manager. And I know oftentimes people, they get those mixed up. Nowadays people want a good leader and not a good manager, because you can be a manager, but not know how to lead.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
For sure.
Jalonni Weaver:
Or you could just have a bad leading style. You could tell people what to do instead of trying to lead them and coach them into what to do. And so I think just identifying like, are you a leader or are you a manager? And just that authority figure. And I think when I think of leadership or even that executive presence, I know I can't stand that word, that's kind of like cultural fit, I can't stand that. Because ideally when we think of executive fit or that executive presence, it's a white man. It has nothing to do with a woman and add a woman in color of that, oh my gosh, everybody's freaking out.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Right.
Jalonni Weaver:
And so I think just trying to step away from that and trying to rebuild of what does that executive look or why do we even have that word? Why is there a look? And I feel like that's what it is. I did some researching and I think last time I checked, there was only, out of the Fortune 500, there was only I think 49 diverse CEOs and maybe two women of color. Maybe.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
My word. Yeah, you don't need to go much further those numbers right there.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah, like don't quote me on that. Hopefully it got a little bit better and hopefully that's inaccurate. But I know it was far to none. It's like, I think about that as why? Why is that? Why aren't we up there?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. To your point of executive presence, I think about a couple times in my work experience where I was up for an opportunity and one comes to mind at a previous workplace where I had the potential to go fly to Europe and speak on behalf of the company. It was super last minute, somebody needed to go and I ended up being passed over for it. And I think in those situations as a woman of color, it's hard to distinguish, am I being passed over because I'm a woman? Am I being passed over because I'm a person of color? Am I literally just not qualified? But then if you decide you're just not qualified, well, you got to look at who sets the qualifications and what are the qualifications? And so often those qualifications are set by the traditional straight white man and the bar is set by him and to look like him. And so even if you are qualified in a different sense of the word, it somehow all gets really interlaced.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah, no, and that's good. And I know when I'm recruiting, I always have to remind myself and remind my hiring partners or when I was sourcing, I would say, "Okay, when I'm looking for people for these positions, I'm going to find diverse talent." And a lot of people think of diverse talent as just like, okay, another woman or another skill set. And I want to say no, like diverse in yes, they're a woman, but a woman of color, particularly black women because I feel like sometimes if you just do women, they usually they have a white woman. And a lot of people are probably going to hate when I say this, but I think that women of color, specifically black women, we're still at the bottom. And somehow we're always getting stepped on by somebody and we have to prove ourself extra hard. When you said qualifications, like, "Okay, well, why wasn't that qualification for somebody else? Why do I have to be overqualified just to be qualified?" What does that mean?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. No, it's such a good question. I'm curious to ask you, how do you think black women are perceived when the intent certainly isn't to be perceived that way?
Jalonni Weaver:
I think automatically it always bring me to the angry black woman or if we have something to say, we're coming off as like, "Uh, why are they so angry?" Or "Why are they?" And it's like, "No, I'm expressing myself. I'm sorry that I'm not just going to sit down and let y'all talk. If I have something to say, I have something to say." And I don't think they're ready for that. They're not ready for us to be vocal. Because that's one thing that we are is vocal. You're not going to tone us down.
Jalonni Weaver:
And then that there comes the microaggressions or if somebody else were to say exactly what I was saying, it's not a problem. But because of the color of my skin or how my facial expressions are or because I want to express how I'm feeling, now it's a problem because I'm not supposed to have feelings. I'm just supposed to get the job done. And then we could also dive into the strong, independent black woman. But they don't want us to be strong in that aspect. They don't want us to be strong when it comes to leadership or they don't want us to want more. But in other ways, we're that strong, independent black woman.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah, for sure. I definitely agree. I think the angry black woman comes to mind. I think often times too incompetency maybe where it's, I don't know what she or he works on and just kind of questioning someone's ability to get something done specifically black women in the workplace. And I think it's just this microscope that's put on to the work that's being done that isn't there otherwise and just isn't fair or equitable and pisses me off a lot. To be frank.
Jalonni Weaver:
No, and I'm with you on that. And that's the thing is like just educating people. And I think you see us often in those spaces, and what space is it usually? It's often the spaces where they want to create more so of a diverse and they think like, "Okay, I'm just add you to the team." I remember at one of my workplaces, I was the only, and I'm so used to being the only that it doesn't even bother me anymore, but they wanted to add me and I feel like they added me so they could have that diverse hire. Diverse hires are huge nowadays. And it's like, "Okay, no, I'm not going to just be your token." And then I get into this position and get treated like trash or I get here and I can't move up till the next seven years.
Jalonni Weaver:
I need companies to start hiring for talent and I need there to be a clear path on why you're hiring them. And if you can't see that clear path, then do they really deserve to be here? Because you're not valuing them how you would value somebody else. Like you need to, and those are things that I'm trying to like since I am in the recruiting seat, I can say, "What does growth look like in this role?" And if it's stagnant or if it's only stagnant for this person, that's not going to work. I need it to be the same across the board. If you see promotion within six months to a year, I need that to be for everybody. And I need them when they get here, I need that same energy. I just don't need you to give that energy during the interview and during so we can get a yes.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. I'm so with you. I feel like a lot of times in the DEI space, or just in the past couple years as DEI has really blown up, we hear a lot the pipeline problem and this argument that there aren't enough candidates of color to put any effort in. I've been lucky to be in a place where I've been able to see a company really attempt to look at retention as well and just engagement and the employee experience, and it's quite a bit more wholesome. But I'm curious as you have this perspective in the recruiting seat and do have that inside look or starting to get that inside look into the pipeline, what are some ways that maybe even we as people of color can support each other once we're inside the company and not just in that pipeline kind of problem area?
Jalonni Weaver:
No, that's a good question. I think retaining. So my goal is to, if I get a person that looks like me hired, I want to retain you because it really means nothing if I just get you hired and you leave after a year because you're not getting treated right. Because then I failed. I want to bring people into a safe environment. I want to bring people into an environment where they feel valued and just don't have a good candidate experience during the interview process. But when you come in, I want you to feel like I belong here, a sense of belonging. And I think how do companies, and this often goes through my mind, how do we retain talent? Because I know a lot of my companies that I've had in the past, the highest rate is because of black women.
Jalonni Weaver:
I've worked for companies where we're losing black women left and right in high positions. And it makes me think like, "What are we doing wrong?" And I always, I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but I always reach out to that black woman that left because usually I'm close with them. And I ask like, "Why'd you leave?" Because I'm curious to know. Because they're not going to say, they're going to say they got better opportunity. And usually it's, "I do have a better opportunity and I'm doing what I want to do. I was being stagnant. I was promised a promotion and I have yet to see it." And it's like, "Wow." Or like, "Hey, they gave so and so that has been under me and been working here for less time, they gave them the promotion before me and they said that I'm not qualified" or they put you in a different position that you don't even want to be in.
Jalonni Weaver:
And so it just makes you think like, I think employers need to really learn how to read the room and read their employees. If your employee tells you that they're not happy, don't just be like, "Okay, here, we can give you a raise" because they are quick to throw money at you. And some people would catch it, but just throwing money isn't going to keep them longer. It may keep them a year or two longer, but then they're going to eventually leave. But I think actually hearing them when they ask for help, give them help. When they say they need something more out of this role, give them that.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. A hundred percent. It's so much more about the money than we like to make it.
Jalonni Weaver:
Exactly. And what do you think some practices? Because I often, like I said, think about this, but what do you think some practices that employers can do to just retain us? How can you get kept? I always look at you in a job is like a relationship. What keeps you there? What is going to continue to keep you there? So that's my question for you is what keeps you somewhere?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah, and it's a great question. I think it has to be a combination of things to your point of more than just money. Of course, competitive and great compensation in order to live a life where your needs are met and you're able to adventure and explore, that's important. So a competitive compensation is important. Outside of that, I think feeling a sense of respect with the value that you bring to the table.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
So even if your experience doesn't exactly line up with someone else on your team, you are still valued equally as a human being and as to what you can bring to the table and knowing that your employer is looking for your strengths and is pointing out strengths in your reviews and is investing in your development, especially if you're taking on some extra work, is really crucial. So for example, with like a lot of DE&I work, I talk to a lot of different folks who lead employee resource groups and I try to just make connections on LinkedIn within that world and give people calls and just pick their brains.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
And from what I can understand, the people who are most impacted by systematic racism are often the ones that carry the burden to fix it. And that will never, I don't think that will ever not be true just as a function of how things work. We can appreciate our allies and we can appreciate the folks who are working to do something about that and we certainly need to work with them. But at the end of the day, that burden is sitting on the shoulders of those of us who are hit by it.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
And so I think when you ask the question, what can a company do about that? It's like, okay, if you're setting up these opportunities for women to lead women or for BIPOC to lead BIPOC, for even veterans to lead veterans, then let's incentivize further those volunteer opportunities. So maybe it's a L&D budget. Maybe it is a certification. Maybe it is a hospitality budget where you're able to take out coworkers and pay. Just some of these more creative approaches to comping a volunteer position that helps your company to be more equitable and inclusive.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah, no, I love that. And it's crazy that you said that that DEI space is where we usually are and where we're usually needed. And I wonder if companies are going to realize that, "Hey, we belong in other places other than the DE&I space or leading the diverse ERGs." And it seems like every time, and I love everybody in the DE&I space, but it's like, "Okay guys, you know that there's other places within the company that we want to be seen at. What if I want to be the vice president of marketing? I deserve to be up there and not just in a space."
Jalonni Weaver:
And it's like they want us to bring in more people because ideally if we see, I know I used to be like this. If I saw somebody in the DE&I space that looked like me, I'm going to gravitate more. But it's like, okay, if we're all just in one space, what does the rest of the company look like? Yeah, and I think the incentives. And often how can we get our names out there? I know a lot of companies, they like to be present at HBCUs and it's like, "Hey, you know that there are other black people in other places and other groups."
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
It's not the only source.
Jalonni Weaver:
"Okay, I know it's good that you're going to Howard, but you know that there's an HBCU down the street in Dallas that's not tapped into." Or there's a group in Dallas that's not tapped into and-
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Not to mention just regular college and universities that people opt to go to.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yes. Like, hello.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. It's an excuse.
Jalonni Weaver:
I know we're often get burnt out when we are in those spaces because we're trying to do so much. It's like how do we prevent that burnout? I know since you're in that space, how do you per burnout? Or what if you don't see things happening? How do you stay encouraged or stay motivated to continue to do the work that you do?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. I feel like for me, it's both setting some boundaries to ensure that I'm not spending all of my energy on this business, that at the end of the day cares about the bottom line and recognizing that this work has gone on since the dawn of civilization in terms of equity work and just trying to create a more just society. And so on that first half, I really try to maintain a pretty solid morning routine. Some days are better than others, but I really try to start in quiet time, just being grateful for everything that's in my life and really trying to center myself and my journaling and my meditation and my prayer so that I can bring my best self to whatever I show up for for the day. And then stopping work at 5:00 PM, almost always. Sometimes yeah, it's important to pull a late night or two, but I try not to do that more than a couple times a year, to be honest.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
And I think we're paid for 40 hours a week, so let's put in our best for 40 hours and then hit the road. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. So trying to maintain those boundaries. And then I always come back to this Martin Luther king Jr. quote, and Martin Luther King was an amazing figure and I think has been used many times and people have different feelings about his quotes, but there's one that I always come back to which is "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice."
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
And so understanding that when I am calling out a coworker for something that they said about a black woman, or when I am talking to a executive leader about a situation that isn't right in the company and that needs resolution, even though I'm not probably going to see exactly what I want to come to fruition, I'm planting a seed that years may be down the line will blossom and someone in the future hopefully will benefit from that. And I think just recognizing that it takes time is super important.
Jalonni Weaver:
I love that. And starting with your routine and trying to separate. I know for me, it's really hard to separate my work in life because I'm so passionate about my work, hence why I did the podcast and I'm so active on LinkedIn is because it's like, it's a passion for me and it goes further out than just in the workplace. And I know I catch myself sometimes getting attached to candidates and it's like, I'm advocating so hard for them. I'm like, "Okay, Jalonni, you did all that you can. And now it's up to the hiring manager and the team on who they want to go with." And I have to step back sometimes like, "Okay, you're just the recruiter." And you did your part. You brought them in for interview. You saw something in them that maybe somebody hasn't seen. You gave them a chance.
Jalonni Weaver:
And now it's their time to shine and so I catch myself wanting to be there every step of the way and hold their hand. And I coach them and I do everything I can, but that honestly is draining sometimes because you're putting your all into somebody else. You're pouring into somebody else and trying to help them. And so I want as much as I would love to help everybody that looks like me, I can't because it's tiring and it takes so much out of me. And it's like, "I did what I could at the end of the day." And then I think going back to what you said, just educating people on things like, "Hey, we don't say that" or, "Hey, this is how I'm going to wear my hair." Or "Hey, just because it's Black History Month, this isn't the only time that we should be celebrating black history. This isn't the only time that we should be having these events for black people or Hispanic people or people of color. You need to have this year around because we exist year round. We just don't exist during certain months."
Jalonni Weaver:
And I think that a lot of companies, once they get that in their head that, "Hey, we need to support them just like we support other groups and other people, and we need to support them just as much," that's how they'll learn to retain people and learn to keep people and grow because people can call a bluff. I can call it. So I think like, and that all goes back to that leader. So whoever is in that hiring seat should be a leader and not just a manager. Whoever you report to should be somebody that you consider a leader and not just a manager and it's like a everlasting cycle or an ever going cycle.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. I love that. So that makes me think of a question for you around, okay, if you aren't a manager, does that mean that you can't lead or just because you lead, does that mean you're a manager? I'm curious what's your differentiation between those two terms?
Jalonni Weaver:
That's a good one. I think that I consider myself a leader, but I don't have a manager title. I think anybody can lead if you have that heart for leading. So leading, these are all just titles. And so I think anybody can be a leader if somebody is willing to follow them. Because you may be a manager, you may be a leader, or you may consider yourself a leader, but you aren't worth following because you're not doing the right thing. And I could get real biblical on this, but I'm not.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Go there if you want.
Jalonni Weaver:
And so that's what I think of when I think of a leader that's like, "Do I trust you to guide me the right way? Do I trust you if we are taking a trip and I have no map and you have the map and are you trusting for me to follow you and you're not going to lead us into a black hole?" Whereas a manager, you may have just managed that map, but you don't know where the hell we going.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
That's so good. I really like that map illustration. I haven't heard it said like that before. But you're so right. If you're in the wilderness and you want somebody to kind of guide you, lead you through it, that's going to be the leader that you're looking to, not necessarily the manager who's making sure everything gets done.
Jalonni Weaver:
And then also I think of a leader as knowing the job. Because let's be honest, we're just going to be real, we're going to keep it a hundred, a lot of managers, they just manage, but they don't know how to do the job. And if you are stepping into a position, I need you to have been there in order to... You can't tell me what to do and you don't even know what to do. What? That doesn't make sense.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. I'm curious if you were to be put into a position of leadership and hadn't done the role on the other hand, like what advice might you have for somebody who finds themself there?
Jalonni Weaver:
Mm. So if I'm in a position and I've never done the role, but now I'm taking it on?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Right. You're taking on some leadership.
Jalonni Weaver:
Ooh, I think I would do my best to learn it. And I want to be able because I don't respect... And this probably sounds bad, but I can't respect somebody for telling me to do a job and they haven't even done it. I used to work at Chick-fil-A and they have a leadership and development program and they make all of their leaders go through the grunt work. Before you can lead a team, you have to go make smoothies or make the little milkshakes. You have to go to the back and make chicken sandwiches. You have to be hands on just in case it's time to dive in, you know how to do these things. Because when things get tough and you just are looking around at the chaos, nobody's going to listen to you.
Jalonni Weaver:
Nobody's going to be like, okay, so we're going to ish. And what are you doing? You're standing around looking at us trying to guide us and tell us what to do, but you're not jumping in to actually help us do the work. And so I think that brings us to the characteristics of a leader. What does that look like? You want somebody that looks like you, of course. That was something that in my next job or in this current job, that was something I was looking for is I want somebody that looks like me because I know that they can relate to me if I'm going through something. And now I have a woman that is my leader. Even at my job, we don't even call people managers, we call them people leaders.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. That's cool.
Jalonni Weaver:
Because there's a difference. And so I want to ask you, what are characteristics that stand out or what makes a good leader?
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. Man, I think for me, a good leader is someone who's committed to the task, someone who is fulfilled by the work and someone who is motivating in the way that they carry themselves. I often, you said I want somebody who looks like me. I think representation is everything, very important. And I think that before we can often see something for ourselves, we need to see it in somebody else who looks like us and that we believe is attainable. And so, so often it's hard for, especially young women professionals of color to aspire to leadership because we just don't have those role models.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
However, when I think what makes a good leader, I'm thinking about somebody who puts themselves at the bottom rung, gets their hands dirty with the team and says, "I'll go to bat for you. So if you mess up, well we mess up and I'm going to deal with the consequences for us. Before you are yelled at, I will get yelled at" kind of thing. And just not being afraid to, yeah, for some reason I think of go to bat and I don't even like baseball. But that's where my brain goes. That's really what the leaders in my life have inspired me to is being there for my team and everything really.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah. And that's a great point is like, are you only a leader when things are easy, or are you one when things start getting tough? Because I know my first week I had an issue and I'm used to taking it on, I'm used to being told like, "Okay, you can handle it, call me when you figure it out or if it just escalates." And it's like, "No, you get paid the money to take on these things." That's why you're the leader and I'm following you. And so I remember my leader, I had something happen and they stepped in and they were like, "Hey, don't worry about it. I got you, I got your back. I'll take care of it." And a couple hours later they're like, "Hey, it's all good. Continue your day."
Jalonni Weaver:
And I'm like, "Oh shit." Somebody took that on for me.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
It's the best feeling.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah. And it takes a weight off your shoulders. It's like, "If I'm not getting paid this leader money, then I don't think I can do this leader work." So I think just having somebody that like you said will go to bat for you and will advocate for you and wants to see you win, wants to see you grow. And I often think usually some of the best leaders aren't just leaders that are internally in the professional world, but they practice leadership externally in their personal life. Because a lot of us, we'll just, we hold that position and then we get out into the real world and it's like, "I'm just chilling." I think that's a characteristic that you need to hold throughout. If you're going to dedicate yourself to something or say claim that title, you need to own it.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. Yeah. To have that integrity through every part of who you are, which again kind of goes back to why I really try to take my morning seriously, because if I skip that chip, I am out, like I'm not good to anybody and I'm not good to myself and it's just better off that I don't show up. To your point of integrity, I think very important as a leader, as a future leader to take it seriously how we treat ourselves, how we treat our body, how we treat our spirit, how we treat our mind, because that stuff does rub off on other people and they can sense it more than we even think that it can.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
I just took a course from Yale on executive leadership. It was like six weeks and it was like five hours a week. And one of the exercises was reaching out to like 10 to 15 people in your network to understand their top three positive memories of you and when you showed off your strengths the best. And it was really fascinating to hear from people from all different stages of my life and how they perceived me and in what instances they felt that I was performing at my best. And I recognized that the more I focus in on my health and then also my team's wellbeing as a unit or as a like, yeah, as a being, then the more positive people feel about my contribution to something and my ability to lead. So it was interesting.
Jalonni Weaver:
No, and I love that you did that. And I think focusing on ourself first is huge. Because we don't do that often. I think that's an attribute of a woman of color or even a black woman is that we want to pour ourselves into everybody and everything and we want to just shine. We're always overdoing it because that's the only way that we feel like we'll get noticed is if we're doing the most. I love using that term. And why do we have to do the most to get notice for something? Why can't we just do what everybody else does and get noticed? And it's the way life, society has always been built, we've always had to just go that extra mile and that burns us out.
Jalonni Weaver:
And I know a lot of women nowadays are jumping into that entrepreneurial spirit. They want to jump into working for themselves because that's where they succeed and that's where they feel like they can thrive. And I've thought about it plenty of times. Like, "Okay, if I don't see the promotion track or this, that, and the other, I'm going to go work for myself because I know I can guide my steps. I know I can hire whoever I want and I can make this thing beautiful and happen." And I was like, "Why do we have to go that way?" Why can't we just work a normal job and then do something on the side? Why do we always feel like we're getting pushed out of the workplace into our own spaces and now we have to build from ground up.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
It's so good. And even why do we have to feel like we have to have something on the side? So many people are just able to contribute at work and then just enjoy life. And I think that's so much about what equity strives for is we should all be able to enjoy our free time and we shouldn't have to worry about making an extra buck at the end of the day, point blank period. And for so long that has not been true for black women for so many reasons. And I think it just continues to evolve and we do feel this need to either go work for ourselves or have this side hustle that hopefully one day turns into our own thing. And yeah, there's a lot there.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah. That was a lot of unpacking. And I feel myself, that's me. And I feel like I'm always on the go and I feel like I'm never just full. I don't know if you ever had that feeling of like, "I want to do more. I need more." And it's like, where does that come from? It's like, "Girl, if you don't sit down somewhere." But it's like we always want to put our hands in stuff and we're just like, "No, I need more, I need this. I need that. I need to do this. I need to feel like this." And it's like, is that because you want to feel that way or is that what society wants you to feel? Is that what society has you thinking is okay? And so that's, whew, that's a good one.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
That's a good one. One other thing I'll say about becoming a leader, whether it is for a company or for your own company one day. I've given this a lot of thought recently. What is kind of the first step to setting yourself up well there? And I really think A, it's knowing what you want. So getting really clear, do I actually want to run my own business, have my own team, be a CEO? If so, that's awesome. There are a lot of narratives out there right now that's the only way to go though to your point. If you want freedom, build your own business. And that's not necessarily true. So maybe on the other hand, somebody wants to become a leader in the corporate world. That's just as great. Wonderful. But I do think it is important to have some sort of idea of what that might look like and what you really want. I think that's step one.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Step two is believing that it's possible. Because if you want something, but you don't believe that you yourself can achieve it, then it can't make its way to you. Because at the end of the day, you are attracting this energy of "Yeah, but it's not for me." So number two is doing the work to believe that you have it in you and believe that you can surround yourself with the right people to make it happen, even given the many obstacles that you'll face.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
And then step three is believing that you're worth it. And this one is probably the hardest and the most important. Because it's one thing to say, "I want to be a senior vice president of sales and I know that I can." It's another thing to say "I believe myself that I deserve that title, that I deserve that work, that I deserve that influence, that I deserve that pay, that I deserve all the things that come with that position." Because so many times when we don't see people in those roles, it's been hard to do any of those steps. But I think the hardest one is believing you're worth. And so if you're listening and you've had a hard time believing in your worth, take the time to do that hard work and know that by having breath in your lungs, you are worth it.
Jalonni Weaver:
No, and I love that. And we'll talk ourselves out of things so much and I'm trying like, I am the worst at that. I'll be like, "This sounds really good. I'm going to do it." And I'll continue to say, "This sounds really good. I'm going to do it." And then it never happens. And I think like you said, that first thing is just seeing it, seeing that vision and then believing that, "Okay, I can do this" and now believing you're worth and then doing it, like taking those actions regardless of what that may be. If that's starting a plan, seeking people to help you with this and then putting it into action and actually doing it and following through with it. Because a lot of us will start stuff and we won't follow through. And it's that follow through that's going to get us further than where we thought we were going to get in the first place.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. It's so true. The continued action over time is ultimately what creates results. I think we get really caught up in the either overthinking or just taking quick action, whereas consistency is definitely where it's at.
Jalonni Weaver:
And we want quick results.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah.
Jalonni Weaver:
We always want, and that's like, I can go to the gym seven days and I want to look like Beyonce and that's not what's going to happen. It's that consistency, being consistent in that follow through. And I think also in a job, if we're talking about follow through or being consistent and growing, I always tell candidates growth looks different for everybody and not to measure yourself next to somebody else because you don't bring the same thing that that person brings in vice versa. We all bring different things. Nobody is the same. And I think just staying true to yourself and I think as women of color, sometimes we do want to, we're trying to compare ourselves to other like what do they have that I don't have? And nothing.
Jalonni Weaver:
You are everything, it's just that we were set up differently and yeah, it's like we, and I hate that we have to do it, we just got to work harder and we got to prove ourselves. And I think showing that and showing your value and I shouldn't have to prove myself time and time again for you to acknowledge me. I think that's why a lot of women, especially during the pandemic, a lot of women of color have been leaving jobs because they're like, "I don't have to tolerate this. I can go somewhere else that is showing me the value and it's giving me what I need and why am I still here?" And so I think don't wait till the last minute when it's too late, when that employee's about to counter or has another counter offer. That's too late. You need to appreciate your employee before it gets that far.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. A hundred percent. Yep. And businesses have got to start taking that action. In California, they've been introducing legislation for four day work weeks and all this craziness because people are demanding to be treated better. And I think it's about time. We are past the assembly era. We're staring at screens all day. As humans, we deserve better. And certainly as women of color, we deserve better. So it's been cool to see some action really at the legislative level too.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah, and that's what I want to ask. I shared an article with you before this chat and the article was called, Does Your Definition of Leadership Exclude Women of Color? And in that question, and if you're a leader out there listening, or if you're on executive board, you're a founder, whatever you may be, think about that question. Because lot companies think that diversity is just having a woman on their team, and just one, just one woman surrounded by 15 white men. And that's not diversity or having, I hate saying this, but having that bare minimum woman of color.
Jalonni Weaver:
So the one that just barely makes it. If you know, you know, like that just barely made it. They never have somebody that's on there with just a natural afro or the curls just popping. And they always have that one where you're trying to figure out like, are they? I'm trying to figure it out, which we know what it is, but for us people who are black women or maybe Latina, it's like, I want to see somebody that I can identify with.
Jalonni Weaver:
I can't identify with you and I still don't identify with you. Even though you may be a woman of color, I need to see more. I need to see you and then maybe I need to see a brother next to you. Because usually that's the next best thing is a brother. I need to see him next to you or I need to see another sister next to you. I need to see more than just one at the end of the day. And so in the article it said that attributes company often look for in leaders, such as a competitive, dominant, objective, self-confident, aggressive, ambitious or overwhelmingly masculine. That's what they look for in the next leaders. And that often leaves women of color at a double disadvantage. They often don't fit companies measures for leadership because those measures are developed for someone else.
Jalonni Weaver:
And that brings me to, we are built or we were put in a system that wasn't built for us, but that's for a different day and different time. But we have to constantly just have this battle. And when is it going to end? When are we going to be treated fair, get paid fair, get promoted fairly? When are we going to be tired enough and say like enough is enough. And when is the organization at the top of the chain, not at the bottom, at the top going to change because that's where it start. Change at the top in order for it to reflect at the bottom.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
A hundred percent. It's so difficult to try to create that change from the bottom and in the history of the United States, that's really where it's happened is grassroots organizations and movements. And without that top down, it just painstakingly so slow. Those attributes that you read off, the competitive, dominant, aggressive, ambitious, definitely apply to the standard Elon's, Jeff Bezos of the world. And I think so many times, because the investor pool for these big companies is so white and so male and so straight, it's almost impossible to break into it.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
And I think what has to be understood for folks at the top like that is that diversity is actually a good business decision. It's not only moral and it's not only right, but at the end of the day, who doesn't want to make decisions for all people? That's the thing that I think I struggled the most with. If I'm going to sit down and create something, I want all sorts of perspectives and all sorts of backgrounds and all sorts of understandings and perspectives. And so to just have one type of understanding of something, I just don't understand how it even works. But apparently it does.
Jalonni Weaver:
Yeah, and I don't know if they don't think that the black community has money, but we got money. We got money in, I know we're looking for things to invest in and companies to invest in and so we're giving y'all some tea for once again, the CEO's executives, whoever's listening, you want to tap into these spaces that aren't tapped into because that's just going to bring more customers or our clients your way and that looks good.
Jalonni Weaver:
We love to see. If I see somebody at the company or talk to a diverse person that's at a company I'm like, "Okay, that's why I bank with you." This is why I'm giving you my money because I know that you're treating my community right and I know you just aren't hiring them just to make a count. So yeah, once they figure that, they'll be golden. But it's just, they have to figure it out. And I think like they are so, especially the conservative companies, they're so focused on their current clients, which is old money. And if you know, you know. And they're not thinking about the new generation that's coming up and what we look for when we're thinking about investing or putting our money into something.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
For sure. Yeah, I'm with you.
Jalonni Weaver:
Woo. This was a good talk. And I know you have some things coming up. Do you want to share what you're doing or share anything with the audience? Because I know people want to hear, what does Lindsay do? What is she doing in the future? I know you have a couple projects happening right now.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah, I appreciate it Lonni, and we just kind of really jumped into it, didn't we? Which I love. But yeah, during my day job, I serve as a sales enablement manager and just got my first hire, so I'm learning all of what it looks like to lead in a corporate environment and have been pretty involved with the DEI stuff. And then on the side I have done a little bit of everything, dip my toe into different things. I produced a short film that was called Outside the Box and it was about a young black girl who had these big dreams. And the people closest to her were the ones to tell her not to go and chase after those things. And so she really works through fighting some of those demons and really thinking outside the box and getting outside the box to go and chase her dreams.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
So did a bit in film. I also co-founded a loosely tea brand with a friend of mine. His name is Tim Salau, known as Mr. Future of Work on LinkedIn. And we actually serve our tea at LinkedIn headquarters. So if you're ever up in San Fran grab a glass, it's called Big Black Tea and our slogan is Choose Abundance. And finally, kind of long term what I hope to do is host retreats for high potential women and specifically high potential women of color. I'm thinking I'd like to host these for women who want to build ethical businesses. I'm really interested in that word ethical and I think it encompasses a whole lot of different things, both about how we treat our planet, how we treat people and how we treat ourselves. And so would just love to get folks together in person, maybe in Malibu is where I'm thinking, just to kind of brainstorm what does it look like to build a more ethical future and to have more of that be built by people who look like us.
Jalonni Weaver:
Oh, I just love everything you're doing. I just love everything. And so if you are listening in, follow Lindsay. Her name is Lindsey Peoples Tod, AKA Ms. Aha Moments, follow her on LinkedIn. She is great. She's always posting good stuff. And this is just an example of how networking, you guys can actually have a relationship out of social media, like off of it and just create relationships. And so I just want to say thank you so much for coming on here and unpacking women of color and leadership. I enjoyed this conversation and we may have a part two for you guys. You never know.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yeah. Yeah. Stay tuned. Also I would be remiss if I didn't stop and pause to say congratulations for making your first offer and it was accepted today. A sis went and did it.
Jalonni Weaver:
I did that. I did that.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Congratulations. I hope that you're taking time tonight to celebrate a bit.
Jalonni Weaver:
Girl, I'm about to go get an adult beverage.
Lindsey Peoples Tod:
Yes, we love to hear it.
Jalonni Weaver:
But thank you. Yes. And I think that's something that I put forth is like, I speak so highly on women of color and people of color and it also reflects in my actual life. And that's my goal. As you guys may have heard, my goal is to bring diverse talent and not just diverse in color, diverse in gender, thought, anything else that may be considered diverse could we always put diversity, it always is race and there's more to diversity than just race. But yes, thank you. And if you're listening, thank you for showing up. Thank you for listening to my show today. Thank you for listening to our conversation, our chit chat. Please write, subscribe, review. Also feel free to share the show with your network because we love to grow and people need to hear these things. And until next time, see y'all and the music today is by Houston rapper, $hun. See ya.
$hun:
(singing).